They put Covid 19 on my Dads death certificate. (1446 views, 120 replies)
They had this on the news while back, the hospitals get X amount of money for each patient that died of Covid-19.
www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospit...
@Javi I'm guessing that question is directed at the person who made the vid (because there is no reason why you should be asking me that in this forum), so why not just go on YouTube and ask her in the comment section.
@PureVodka🍺 I am asking you. Also, what steps did you take to verify that her accusations are true or false?
@Javi "her accusations are true or false" How disrespectful is that!
And who do you think your taking to?
Anymore trolling i will block you.
@PureVodka🍺 I am obviously talking to a fool who goes around spreading lies and disinformation on purpose in order to deceive others for no other reason but to commit evil deeds. God will punish you for all this.
@Javi To many blocks done in a short period of time, so i can't block you yet but will try again later.
@Javi Steps? What on earth do you mean? Dont you know that PV believes that if its on Youtube, it must be true beyond contestation?
The fact that the poster of the vid (stacy skywatch....??!!!! ) has a home page with a collection of videos explicitly stating that COVID-19 is a hoax and that Chemtrails are real, doesnt ring any alarm bells for him.....
@JudgeDredd So when does he start to talk about the aliens and Freemasons role in all this?
@Adrian∞ normally a lot more stupidity fits in a mans brain..i am aware that is a bit sexist...but ALL OF THAT IDIOTIC NONSENSE HE EVER POSTED
went through an XX brain????
this is somehow...disgusting... i was used to think of a fat southern hill billy..now its a fat southern Hill Bellinda..
poor US
@Javi PV is not into the alien and Freemason theories.
For that you need Tamperer71. He will illuminate you on the facts behind his theories that cats are in fact spies sent by the aliens and that the illuminati (a.k.a the World Elite, a.k.a. the Deep State, a.k.a. the Clintons ) are in fact Satanists that have found the fountain of youth in the blood of newborn babies
Actually, on second thought, count yourself lucky you havent had the pleasure of Tamperer71.
@JudgeDredd That is absurd, cats make awful spies. They will betray you just for a mere scratch behind the ear.
@Javi I suppose that canines would be considered counter intelligence officers in such a scenario. That would certainly explain all the animosity
@JudgeDredd
I could not have put it better - but I was always under the impression that HE was a SHE. Thanks for the update.
HE and FRAC have unblocked me and a whole new world that I had forgotten about is following me where ever I go.
I don't like to block but this may have to be the exception.
And don't get him started on the current pandemic and the vile Bill Gates and how he has a vaccine for religious thought - just don't.
@..box.. Unblocking you was certainly a move out of necessity. If one takes into account that essentially it is only you and Adrian versus all of them in the other site, blocking you immediately limits exposure by 50%. And as Adrian takes a far more combative approach, yet a really humorous one, it is up to you to provide a serious attempt to a counter argument.
Although I admit I admire your patience in the matter. I have limited my behind the scenes exposure on anysubj to just a few minutes per day. The IQ of certain posters has taken such a nosedive that it only takes a couple of seconds for me to feel like a genius by comparison. Its quite useful in moments of self doubt.
@JudgeDredd I have stopped going to anysubj also. The "Trump can do no wrong" crowd and the conspiracy theorists seem to have taken over. I wish there were more quality posters over there. You just don't get balanced information there.
@rickgrimesrocks I don't know why anyone with any intelligence would go there.
Just look at the articles posted!
And the crazy red-neck hate-fans and conspiracy freaks.. there's no point in arguing.
@Buttless True indeed. Too much hate in there. Discussing conspiracies was a favourite past time of mine. Of course it was interesting from the viewpoint that reality precludes the adoption of the conspiracy as a fact. It is scary that some people substitute reality for the conspiracy theory. In such cases, my instincts tell me to involve a psychiatrist and run in the opposite direction rather than argue the logic or absence of logic in the entire situation.
@rickgrimesrocks In regards to quality of information, I would have preferred a single stream of news from accredited and recognized sources to discuss and debate. I also would have enjoyed the theme portrayal of the news in relation to political lenses (i.e. a topic and how is presented by liberal news versus the same topic presented by conservative news). It could have been entertaining. I would entire exclude from this equation all the YouTube "news" and conspiracies presented as facts.
@(⌐■_■) I used to feel this way when I considered that a logical and cohesive argument would be understood and prevailed over pure propaganda. Alas, this isnt the case with the vast majority over there. There is no desire to discuss, just to insult.
@JudgeDredd Covid-19 , the virus is not a hoax. The over-reaction to try to stop it in our world will kill hundreds of millions of people more than the virus. Just like for those that die with cv-19 , it is the bodies over-reaction with a cytokine storm that damages their vital organs. Yet you trust all the little Hitlers to save you from CV-19 by hiding in your closet and bating in hand sanitizer, and wearing your mask everywhere. Did any one of these technocrats give you the real formula to boost your immune system , and lower your risk of harmful infection. No they did not.
@CanyonD PS.. "Chemtrails" or Terraforming Aerosols are real. Here in TX you can get a license to "spray". Now check this out conspiracy denier:
Hers a link to one of the companies that sells the aerosol agents...
www.americanelements.com/weather...
@CanyonD P.S.....You know that I am an aviation Lawyer, right? I have served as Legal Counsel for almost 10 years in both International and European Aviation Safety Organisations. As such I have come across that ludicrous conspiracy theory in my professional capacity more often that you could imagine. People seem fascinated with the Contrails left in the wake of a passing jet at high altitude, yet seem unable to comprehend the mechanics of basic physics at work. The hot, humid exhaust from jet engines mixes with the atmosphere, which at high altitude is of much lower vapor pressure and temperature than the exhaust gas. Its almost the same mechanism as seeing your own breath in white vapor during the winter months, yet you do not even consider if you are exhaling chemical agents designed to enslave free thinking folk ( ).
What you call "Chemtrails" or Terraforming Aerosols, we call Weather Modification. It doesnt even qualify as a novelty project, if you consider the Rain Dancing performed by Indian tribal shamans . Science and the aviation industry have joined forces in its practical implementation since the late 1940s. The idea behind it is to control or affect the weather for the benefit of agriculture. Specifically, weather modification protocols consist of:
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@JudgeDredd And I did read it. I do know the difference between the contrails and chemtrails. Weather modification for "good reasons" is not new.What is being hidden is the reasons for a constant haze caused by aerosols globally.Not to mention the long term damage to the environmental and health hazards caused by nano-particulate aluminium compounds along barium, strontium and who knows what else. Yet, thank you for opening minds in your own special way to the fact that chemical agents ARE being sprayed in the skies everywhere and everyday..
@CanyonD If you understand the difference between Contrails and Chemtrails, you must also understand the difference between Weather Modification and Terraforming. They are not the same, not even similar, not by a longshot. Terraforming remains in the highly theoretical stages, with the mechanics required still at the preconception phase. Philosophical and ethical discussions aside on its potential, there has been no technological advancement in that direction. Even DARPA has limited itself on the theoretical aspects of the concept rather than engage in needless financial spending in its experimentation, taking into account that without the means to reach other planets, terraforming them is quite pointless.
As for your statement "Not to mention the long term damage to the environmental and health hazards caused by nano-particulate aluminium compounds along barium, strontium and who knows what else."........you do realise that we call this POLLUTION, right? And we dont need to burn Jet A Fuel to disperse them in the atmosphere. Long factory chimneys do exactly that, free of charge and at a rate so constant that the entire fleet of commercial aircraft worldwide cant compete with.
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@CanyonD You couldnt have picked more wrong subjects to argue with me.....
What you call little Hitlers, I call my entire family which is comprised by Doctors. So when I see my own father, a still practicing Doctor at the age of 80, who stops going to the private hospital he works for and orders my mother to stay put in the house, I know something is really wrong. Obviously his medical capacity and expertise is the one I am relying to for advice vis a vis the virus prevention. And all that without even mentioning uncles and cousins, medical professionals as well, who also happen to work in the front lines battling the virus in the hospitals. And the storm is far from over.....
@JudgeDredd When I say Little Hitlers , I'm referring to these appointed technocrats and Governors who are shutting down this country’s economy and ruining peoples lives as if they have the unquestioned divine authority to determine who is "essential" and who is "non -essential". As for your 80 year old uncle and aunt. Even the regular flu could take them out. Good move not to go to work. Did any health care technocrat or institution come out publicly to inform how to enhance the immune system? I have not heard one. Hiding , and bathing in disinfectant only goes so far. The virus will find you. If your body is not prepared, you will end up getting your lungs blown out on a ventilator. Shutting down our nation /nations is stupid. Now that the food supply chains are breaking down and economies have become bleak around the world ; hundreds of millions are probably going to starve to death . ...
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@CanyonD You do realise that the functions and responsibilities of appointed technocrats and Governors are to mitigate crisis scenarios, right? And in such crisis their "unquestioned divine authority" to determine and utilize essential and non essential resources is called crisis management, based on risk assessment and mitigation factors. I wouldnt call their authority unquestioned, as quite a few countries have legislated on the means and procedures of such decision making, but I would certainly call it divine. And it is divine not on religious accounts but quite simply because the crisis management draws power from Public Policy which dwarfs even the Constitution in its application. Public Policy can even suspend the Constitution in whole or in part for the duration of the crisis at hand. It exists alongside and parallel to the Constitution and contains all the emergency powers available to a State/Nation. Because of the possibility of abuse, many states have legislated on the duration of such use of emergency powers but not on their extent.
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@JudgeDredd Allowing technocrats to rule the land might work in Greece. It is not working here in the US.Furthermore, every expert beaureaucrat in Washington DC has their hand in the cookie jar and are waiting for a big payday.
So any therapy or cure that is not controlled or part of their gravy train is squashed. I trust NO_ONE.
Especially that rat Dr.Foochie.
So tell us, what is the dietary and nutritional advice given in Greece? Im curious, and Im hungry for Mediterranean food... But the only Greek restaurant for a hundred miles got shut dow , and he went out of buisness.
@CanyonD I am confused. I understand that corruption and politics coexist in any political system but there is a line that no politician will cross. Acting against the public interest in times of an emergency is a sure way of finding the ruling party out of power in the next election. Thats why we have elections to begin with. Even more so thats why we have the courts. In cases of gross negligence and willful misconduct, no executive privilege will protect a corrupt official, no matter of the political power he holds.
On the other side of the equation, we have the Doctors who transcend political lines or even ignore them, to provide the public with the best chance of survival. This is even more the case when in situations like the current one, a global pandemic, Medical Experts from around the globe cooperate in an exchange of information that is designed to keep everybody on a level playing field. If there is concerted agreement between these experts on the potential of a cure, no politician on earth can dispute or squash the proposed methodology by claiming they know better (no one except Trump perhaps). Not trusting politicians is reasonable and understandable. But not trusting the Doctors in their field of expertise is quite unreasonable. And I am not referring to a specific one that you may deem unqualified. I am talking about the Medical Experts as a whole. If you dont trust anyone, you essentially advocate for a system of anarchy, a system which will definitely be more counterproductive to the public benefit, especially when a global pandemic is at large.
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@CanyonD Holy sh*t, we were never trying to stop it, that was impossible. We were and are trying to lessen the impact to the health care system so there are plenty of personnel available to care for the sick. And, to a point, we were successful- all those hospital beds and respirators not used in certain areas attest to that. But in other areas, their ICUs are being over-run.
How does trying to stop a disease cause millions of people to die? I'm not following your logic there. Shit the death toll right now with some countries being more draconian in their lockdown efforts than the US has resulted in 300,000+ deaths not millions.
Cytokine storm is believed to be a part of what is causing fatalities, there are also fatalities from sudden heart arrythmias, severe clotting etc. It is not the only mechanism of death associated with Covid-19.
You obviously don't know what a cytokine storm is otherwise you wouldn't be calling for a way to "boost" your immune system.
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@AriadneN So how does the worldwide implementation of locking down and confining healthy people to their homes, shutting down so called "non-essential businesses" contribute to the starvation of millions of human beings around the world? Wrecking the economy by shutting down business activity disrupts commerce worldwide.That includes the mass production of food and the logistics to get the food where it is supposed to go.People with no money can't buy. They can only starve or steal.When there is nothing left to buy or steal... You can figure that out. Nations with hundreds of millions of unemployed and starving poor are going to soon be feeding their populations lots of LEAD and FIRE.
I have read that those with an auto-suppressed immune system (like pregnant women) fare better. Those that do experience the cytokine storm end up with organ damage..lungs ,heart ,kidneys... need I go on/ Boosting the immune system- Feeding the body what it needs. Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai made a sound presentation with life saving information on the importance of Vitamin D , A, and Vitamin C . How they help regulate the immune system and protect tissues at the cellular level. Along with a explanation of a newer understanding of the human immune system. Too bad for us that YOUTUBE deplatforms anyone that disagrees with the NWO narrative.It doesn't matter. In a matter of seconds I can still find immunologists with their take on boosting the system.
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@CanyonD 1- cytokine storms are brought on from a hyperactive immune response- a super boosted immune system. Some thing you claim to desire!?! WTAF
2- supply chains in US and Canada have not been disrupted to the point of mass starvation nor will they. I also haven't heard about any where else experiencing imminent catastrophic shortages of food but sh*t is just starting to get ramped up in Brazil, Russia, and India- areas known for less than efficient logistics.
3- anecdotal evidence is not data.
4- Nutritional supplementation may support the immune system but does not "supercharge" it. The only thing it supercharges is your urine. I bet you "detoxify" too.
5- And this guy is whom you are citing?
V. A. Shiva Ayyadurai
(born Vellayappa Ayyadurai Shiva,[2] December 2, 1963)[3] is an Indian-American scientist, engineer, politician, entrepreneur, and promoter of conspiracy theories and unfounded medical claims. He is notable for his widely discredited claim to be the "inventor of email",[4] based on the electronic mail software called "EMAIL" he wrote as a New Jersey high school student in the late 1970s.[5][6] Initial reports that repeated Ayyadurai's assertion—from organizations such as The Washington Post and the Smithsonian Institution—were followed by public retractions.[5][7] These corrections were triggered by objections from historians and ARPANET pioneers who pointed out that email was already actively used in the early...
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@AriadneN As you can tell already , I do like to get people to talk about what they know, and what they think they know. Whether or not one is open to discussion to find a synergy in a quest for an answer or just argumentative for the self stroke of ones ego, and having a satisfaction in hearing ones own voice. You like to cut and paste WiKi , and I like to link YouTube. MD or DO ? Both have their place at the right time. If you have no effective experience using herbs and supplements , that's your problem. Having had bad experiences with the conventional system , that's my problem. Recognizing systemic corruption and fraud,that's our problem. With an open mind I can find answers. But I'll still have to sort through the arrogance and bullsh*t to find a solution ... Nice chatting with you AriadneN
@PureVodka🍺 You will find doctors now . That are speaking out against the practice of CV-19ing someones chart. Simple reason CYA. It's fraud! Conviction means jail time , and a doctor losing their license to practice.
@Javi Are you a physician ? Do you have any experience in the medical billing / administration field? Or are you just trying to score points with a handful of people? If you don't understand how this special payment arrangement works for "Covid-19" for the hospitals , and a general experience dealing with corruption...better you should keep your eyes and ears open, and keep your mouth closed except to coax a criminal to bragging.That is, if you really want to learn the truth.
@Javi I'm only one person.That is God's ability to see all and know all. Yes, I do see a lot. I do hear a lot. I listen and learn from people who do not lie. I listen to liars so that I can recognize a perpetuated lie or scam ,and learn their methods of deception;to aid in their exposure and prosecution.
@PureVodka🍺 Its so awesome that you let us know that doctors just stick a label on dead bodies, and that they are forced to do so by the NEw York Times.
What a Kabbal..(Cabbal? ShabbaPAl?)
it really needs guts and and intelligence to post such critical stuff...
please dont feel encouraged and please STFU
"Comment is hidden, because you were blocked by this user. Read more..."
I can't see what you said. Is it worth reading?
@oldshuntr Why do you nonsensically address a comment to a person you just blocked? They can't see your comment. Please explain this futile gesture to me.
@Javi That would presuppose that he would know the location of South America to begin with
@Javi i did.
it was in a reply to my post on the incident of venezoelan navy with a european cruise ship some weeks ago.
oldy posted a big warship firing guns "americas answer"(meaning trumps answer)and asked why the US should care about a inner european conflict.
it took some minutes to figure out that he meant Venzuela (water) and Germany (ships company)
it is basically a very funny thread. ( i wouldnt say if the JUDGE hadnt said so,too)
anysubj.com/p/The-clown-the-madm...
try it out Javi!
The above video originated on 153news.net. If you're curious, you'll see just what that site's all about.
As for the 'stacy skywatch' channel, it is just an aggregator that lifts content from other conspiracy channels (including 153news.net).
Here's a sampler:
50 MILLION AMERICANS WOULD DIE FROM COVID-19 VACCINE - Dr. Judy A. Mikovits
So who is she? well, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_Mikov... has the following:
"...is known for her discredited medical claims, such as that murine endogenous retroviruses are linked to chronic fatigue syndrome. She has been described as an anti-vaccination activist and a promoter of conspiracy theories, and has been accused of scientific misconduct. She has made several false claims about vaccines, COVID-19, and chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS)..."
But let's move on.
EVIDENCE PROVES COVID-19 IS NOT REAL
This title was lifted from here: youtu.be/oEppLyX6f_4?t=3, which you'll note has been taken offline by YouTube (stacy skywatch has a lot of her stuff).
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For a balanced analysis of the pandemic by a recognised epidemiologist, try:
www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic...
Rod Jackson: Has Sweden made a fatal mistake with Covid 19 coronavirus?
FFS @PureVodka, there is a whole sister site created for and dedicated to this type of political conspiracy/disinformation bullsh*t. Go post your trash over there instead of stinking up this site with it. Thanks!
@AriadneN conspiracy/disinformation* Prove it?
Sorry, do you think you own this site, you have no right to order me around.
stinking up this site* Yes and look at who is doing that (again).
@PureVodka🍺 "Prove it" aww, I must have hit a nerve. Need a safe space sweetie?
How about you eat your own words- you don't own this site either and have no right to order me around. The actual owner and creator of this site (may they be as richly rewarded in life as much as I have been so richly entertained by their creation) decided to create a sister site for the purpose of separating the bombastic nature of current events from the relatively peaceful enjoyment of movies, TV shows, and music. Please do not soil those efforts, I imagine one site to maintain is headache enough, let alone two.
I am guessing you don't get enough attention on the other site and thus come over here to troll for an argument and stir up some sh*t. Congratulations. Job well done.
As for proof, sorry you introduced the video and topic, the burden is on you. The video you linked is highly specious and produced by a channel known for propagating disinformation and conspiracy theories. Jesus wept, it must be exhausting trying to keep all the lies straight.
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@AriadneN Sorry i only read half of that " pointless waffle " trying to justify people trolling this thread, when you clearly just want to get at me (not because you give a damn about others or truth)!
You will not admit to yourselves or others that the MSM is corrupt as hell (so you attack others that oppose it) and you lot just love being " USED " by them.
@PureVodka🍺 Please go back to your kind on anysubject.com
That kindergarten is made for you,
just for you- YOU are disturbing HERE
@PureVodka🍺 It must be such a trial to you to be so undisciplined as to be unable to read and comprehend communications greater than a "tweet" length. *sigh* This one will also be too long, pithy I certainly am not!
You were begging for a response and I gave you one. I wasn't out to "get you". Are you maybe projecting?
So, you couldn't be bothered to read all of it, not because of any (non-existent) "waffling" on my part, but because the facts I provided didn't fall in line with the proscribed OANN, Fox news talking heads, and the conspiracy flavor of the moment talking points you seem to so fervently follow and slavishly regurgitate.
'Tis you who seem to be used, maybe even brain-washed by cable news/youtube, not I.
Did you happen to close your eyes and yell LALALA I CANT READ YOU LALALA as you scrolled down to post your inane reply to keep the facts from tainting your atrophied world view? I hope so, the thought of it makes me smile, thank you for that at least.
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@AriadneN Read the first 3 lines then (got better things to do, then play in " your " games).
@PureVodka🍺 This is your thread, not mine. Thus it is your game. But if you don't have the fortitude to play it is probably best to take your ball and go home. Buh-Bye
Cheers 😚
@AriadneN Thank you for that robust rebuke of this "little man" that insists on touting Youtube as his only source of factual news data.
He has tried this politicising on 2M recently, to no avail but keeps thumping his head off the conspiracy rock face in the hope of recognition from his peers in anysubj.com. He even moans and complains that he is being trolled and not free to spread his gospel preachings.
Thanks for the common sense.
@..box.. Ugh, I know better I really do, but holy f**k-waffles! I usually don't pay too close attention to the forums and hide chat and the other site preview box, but I logged in to take a break and catch up on some shows and saw this sh*t- which I thought had been scooped out of this lovely oasis and given its own litter box. *sigh*
Anyway, it was my pleasure. Despite having to use my phone since my laptop got drowned. I needed to blow off steam anyway.
I've been helping in the clean up of Gladwin, Edenville, and Sanford here in Michigan and it is hot as Satan's nutsack and twice as humid. Masks, even w/o covid precaution considerations, are a must despite how torturous they can seem.
Have a thumbs up from me and enjoy your day!
Ok , having read the thread, here’s the results so far....
Accusing someone of trolling 2
Actual Blocks 2
Using God as an adjudicator 2
Asking if someone has verified the information 2
Asking if someone is qualified to comment 3
It’s getting tense, someone should draw first and which one is Clint ?
@shabbapaul Who do you think would win if they had a gunfight Clint Eastwood's Man with No Name or Val Kilmer's Doc Holliday?
@shabbapaul Clint for guile
Arnie for brute force
Bruce for tenacity
Matt for skills
Sean Connery for wit
@shabbapaul I think Doc's wit and drollness would unnerve and put off Clint. Kilmer's Holliday is unique among Western roles and is a total badass.
@Javi Reckon I’m gonna have to mosey on over and check your film recommendation out young fella
@Javi I’ve just checked it out Javi. What a stellar cast ! RT critics give it a creditable 74% but audiences 94. That’s quite intriguing in itself. I’ll post a review and get back to you later young fella
@shabbapaul I think a shoot-out between a couple of lonely paranoid BS-spreaders and the rest of us who dislike misinformation would be a bit one-sided.
The former would be run out of town, back to the other site where they might find similar-minded idiots to agree with them.
On the other hand, internet experts say the theory of thermodynamics is a hoax so gunpowder is an illusion!
@Buttless Between you and me, I quite enjoy reading the exchanges but this one got a little too tense so I thought I’d defuse it , gunpowder inside or not lol
@shabbapaul I don't know whats wrong with PV, has done this before and got shot down. After last time she tried to get some sympathy in the chat, failed again.
Most of us come here for entertainment because we have enough stress in the real world, and just don't want conspiracies or the retards that disseminate them.
@Buttless Agreed
I see from your profile , you’re a Clint fan 👍
Is PV a she then ? In all these years I’ve assumed I was talking to a he ?
@shabbapaul Please go back to your kind on anysubject.com
That kindergarten is made for you,
just for you- YOU are disturbing HERE
shabbypaul and Pure Vodka
The DOC created a kindergarten for simple minded.
Its your home anysubject.com
Your female jewish therapist Miriam expects you back before sunset
at oldshuntr: did you tie your shoes?
@Adrian∞ I guess being called simple minded from a member of the master race is acceptable admonishment. Shame you had to achieve it through eugenics though lol
He was old, he was in poor health. He may have been dying of Alzheimer's. but if he tested positive for Covid at the end, that was the nail in the coffin.
My mother was dying for about 10 years. At one point they had given her 8 months. In the end, she died of pneumonia as her body was breaking down. It wasn't what had been killing her, but it was what dealt the final blow. This was 2016. I don;t think hospice was seeking extra grant for PPE.
This video will mislead people into thinking the death totals from covid 19 are less. The totals are higher for many reasons on top of some Southern US sates hiding the numbers.
She asks WHY about car crashes and cancer---those things aren't CONTAGIOUS. I know she may still be grieving, but videos like these are not helpfu;.
Here is a fact for you;
New Zealand had NO new Covid-19 cases in over a week, and there is only ONE active case left.
The disease has been eliminated by tight border controls (14-day quarantine) and social distancing widely supported by the population.
There are plenty of verifiable reports about what was done and why it worked.
And here again and again and again
how and why Trump lost 6 weeks of precious time and caused ten thousands of deads:
and even YOU cant say the BBC is part of a jewish/socialistic/chinese world revolution or "fake news".
this is sucha funny clip: in all British politeness it just says
The orange idiot killed his citizens by being dumb.
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God
Does anyone else have or know of " factual " stories/videos like this (please share)?
I've seen stories about Doctors being " forced " to put Covid-19 as a cause of
death when not always the case, but this is the first i've heard about all the
money involved!