Medical and Spiritual Causes of Disease (2183 views, 151 replies)

I was asked about physical sickness, and what are the root causes, and if there are spiritual dimensions.

In my undergraduate training and in graduate school, the latest theories are that disease states occur from three root causes.

In Christianity, there are theological causes that are suggested in the text and in the actions of Jesus.

In allopathic medicine (MDs) and in osteopathic medicine (DOs) [which are legally the same occupation and even will have both mixed MD and DO physician/professors at either med school] then disease is caused by a section of genetic code within one's genome having less ability to oppose a disease state. In addition in pharmacology, it appears that one's DNA (genomics) can influence the means of the efficacy of a pharmacological agent.

In a perfect but Orwellian world, medical researchers would know everyone's genome and then based on rigorous peer review, then match up those who have a chance of developing disease states. Then match up what pharmacological agent seems to offer the most benefit with the least side effects, and with the highest efficacy rate to cure the disease.
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Thus someone with a BRCA gene in their genome will have a higher potential to acquire certain forms of breast cancer. And a predictable way that the disease unfolds. And then protocols are developed to determine the most likely "drug" and dosage which will have the best effect with the safest outcome.

The "sales pitch" is this will reduce costs and troubleshooting time. It also will alter the lengthy delays, uniformly apply protocols and "drugs", and more immediately treat the actual cause rather than wasted diagnostic time.

In Bioethics, there is a fear in that branch of philosophy that this identification will penalize patients, cause job descrimination, and be used by actuarians at insurance companies to either charge so much that the cost is impossible, or just deny coverage.

Then there is the inflammation theory of disease states. Certain routine maintenance like diet act to prevent inflammatory states. Other actions make the body susceptible to inflamatory states.

A patient persistently having inflammatory states then leads to a weakening of the immune system. And so that inflammation leads to severely taxing the limited resources of the patient. They cannot effectively fight off the inflammation and multiple insults by mutagens (chemical, radiological, poisons, nutritional deragement, etc) or microbial (virus, bacterial, fungal, pathogens that are larger like amoebas or vermin like worms) and across vectors like contaminated air/water, animal carriers (like birds or pigs) or insects, then transmit typically into the skin or blood.

Then "exposure" to the weather can cause a weakened immune response. In winter, the air is dry as moisture is not being maintained due to a reduction in rainfall. Then the cold taxes the body. Then synergistically this leads to infection in the sinuses due to skin'tissue cracking. That allows viruses and bacteria to breach this barrier. Your sinuses typically contain several types of bacteria (Staph and Strep), and then these colonized bacteria can infiltrate and if not treated, cause localized infections which can spread.
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Very interesting, informative read!

This is not in any way exclusive to Christianity. Any may have insight into various spiritual beliefs.

See post #2

Who is God?

See post #5.

Back to the topic. All medicine has a spiritual basis and one aspect from my tradition is this.

41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Matthew 5:41

The patients can be meek and afraid to ask for help. The patients may not know to ask for help. The patients may be very demanding.

The altruism of caregivers as healers, staff, facilitators, family, friends, has a spiritual requirement to be willing to do twice what they ask for.

Because others will stop visiting, stop listening, stop caring.

The saddest situation that you will ever see is when neonates are born, and some parents are scared they will perish, and begin to visit them less to prepare themselves.

Parents NEVER get over that grief when a child gets sick and dies. It's unnatural and breaks their hearts in thousands of pieces that can never be put back altogether

The spiritual aspects will come up as we explore the steps leading up to the healthcare roles in facilitating the cure of disease and treatment of symptoms in patients. But in a very genuine way, each person involved is working for the "cure of their own souls" too.

Let's talk about nursing. In America, there has been a critical nursing shortage since the mid seventies! It was so bad that there is absolutely no way to acquire enough female nurses in America to cope. As such, what had been considered a "female nurturing role" then encouraged young men to sign up.

Well there was enormous stigma. People grumbled when women began working as craftsmen in factories (like electricians and welders and machinists) but to get guys to be RNs was a difficult sell.

Meanwhile women, who had traditionally chosen to be educators or RNs, had large opportunities to enter just about any job.

So the USA recruited RNs from places like Ireland and the Phillipines. If you think about that, that was robbing Peter to pay Paul. That had to have very negative effects wherever the drawdown occurred.
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Today, all kinds of men and women take RN jobs, with very different personalities and outlooks and goals.

As the shortage is still so severe, there is HUGE opportunity to attend a 2,3,or 4 year program and just about be guaranteed to be hired with good pay and benefits.

While university recruiters say that 2 year programs are no good, the demand is so high, that it really makes good economic sense. A three year program is usually connected to a thriving medical center to get clinical practical training and a job. The 4 year program helps RNs transition to management.

As women often get married, have children, get stressed by the rigors of life and death decisions, many burn out. This is why it's an opportunity for guys like veterans to transition in. Guys can work as much overtime as they want as many do want the overtime.

Every young person should make inquiries as this a practical and short program with a very return on their investment with high job security.

Your biggest issue is catching mistakes due to the high amount of prescriptions versus dosages. Errors are common and you are the last line of defense by a harried physician who may be working 80-100+ hours and severely sleep deprived.
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What the patient sees vs the family sees is far different than what the physician and RNs sees.

The patient is scared often as they are out of their element and they see right away that most of the staff stays detached.

In medicine, there are two ways to deal with misery and suffering. You either try to connect with each patient so they do not feel ignored, and these folks lend them their presence.

In spirituality this is called "being present in the moment". As GOD is ever present, than those who serve are present with others when suffering. Sometimes you can't actually do anything for the patient except be present as they are slowly dying.

Our being is with their being.

Other healthcare workers will detach INTENTIONALLY as it's so much pain and suffering and sickness, say in a pediatrics oncology ward where sweet innocent children are alone and suffering and not all demanding, and they are dying. And if you connect deeply as a healthcare worker, that really destroys you.
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The dirty secret of nursing is there is a high proportion of substance abuse. Some nurses are power drinkers and go to bars as the misery wracks their hearts. Some start stealing opiates to numb the pain as it s unrelenting. Some end up with random hooks then to. Some end up sleeping with physicians and creating a big dysfunctional mess at work.

It's hard to find a middle ground.

The RNs especially are troubled by what they see. The patients are lonely and scared and the physicians are harried and can only spend minutes and then go to the next patient. This means dosage errors are common. This means physicians can't communicate well and maybe 3-4 physicans are jointly working the patients. This causes delays in their care.

The nurse then worries if people charting right, if everything is in order, if the patient's mood is changing under extended stays, if the patient is losing hope, if the patient will go home and have no support.

All that stuff worries their minds and weighs very heavily. Lots of nurses quit after seven years as it's overwhelming. As most are female, then they are often delaying their lives like dating, commitment, marriage, babies, etc.

Then they take this stuff home and partners can't understand as they have no common frame of reference. They feel their don't listen to them but ignore them. Which of course partners do as people do not want to hear about suffering and especially about strangers.

This leads to lots of conflict at home. Eventually many feel it's not worth it.

I'm telling you the reality. It's not a judgement of the female nurses as they are terrific because they care. They look frazled.

Now the guys won't put up with nonsense. Harried physicians are human and juggling impossible caseloads. So they make mistakes or get confused and get very impatient and short with the nursing staff. Well the guy nurses will challenge that far more.

The guys compartmentalize their feelings and then get ulcers. They rage and snap at their families because they are very frustrated. Actually veterans who becomenurses seem to manage things better.

Divorce is endemic among nurses. That leads to real alienation and high rates of depression.
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Families are very very mixed. Typcally a patient who is older and has adult children will have one who has been dealing with a slow decline in their parent's health. Meanwhile the spouse of the patient ie the mom or dad begins having their own issues as what the other was doing,now doesn't get done. So the adult child is pitching in with both taking their parent to the office visits and tests and trying to listen. Then they are trying to pick up the slack on gettings bills paid, cooking, doing chores that cannot be done by the patient.

The spouse is often shocked when it's serious and starts shutting down. Many are not equipped to handle things on their own as they counted upon their spouse for division of labor.

Adult children from out of town then feel horribly guilty while others will detach as their brother/sister is "handling it".

This causes major sibling conflict as all that responsibility is on their shoulders and the adult sibling outside of town is often clueless.
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Then when some major medical event happens, the out of town sibling rushes to the side of their parents. Tells them lies that all will be fine. Will interfere with treatment, be demanding with healthcare givers, will hassle the physician, will yell at the primary sibling caregiver. In their minds they think this is heroic.

They feel GUILT and SHAME and then are not emotionally prepared but shocked by their parents decline. We fix a mental image of our parents that is healthy and ageless, then see them very ill and get scared.

This is the fairly typical dysfunction thing that happens.

Then of course, the parent-patient ignores their own illness and is using up energy to be a peacemaker. They stop sleeping. They put on a brave front.

All of that interferes with the patient's care. They have no reserve of energy and need calmness and diplomacy and stability.

Meanwhile the spouses of the siblings watch the family implode and oiften suffer in silence. If their spouse is helping their parents, the. Whatever the spouse was doing in the shared division of labor, then isn't getting done. They burn up vacation which creates conflict. They spend money they do not have to help the parents.
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Ok to answer your question, no I’m good

@AnhedoniaNightmare - I am hanging on to your every word and hoping that a nugget of the less obvious will gleam through what has been up until now background research for an episode of "Gray's Anatomy" or a slower House episode.

Is this going to turn into a Charles Dickens episodic account of the mystery of illness?

Let's assume that there is no God the Father and therefore he/she can't be responsible for the millions of deaths under horrible circumstances such as gassing, torture, dismembering while alive etc. And He/she couldn't be accused of letting those little kids with cancer die either or with the multitude of other conditions and diseases. So there is no blame there. No need to lie about a god loving us and us having to worship him. No need to make up the stories of sending a son to save us and being born of a virgin and making a fool out of his adoptive father. We can put it all down to the evolution of the need to adore a higher entity or energy. But science came along and answered alot of the unanswered questions when the Bible was written. And science saves lives - many, many lives. Even lives with cancer.
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Let's take the religion out of the sickness and make the priests into doctors who might be useful in the operating theatre.

Maybe give the people a belief system in the Medical Care System and not in fairytale stories of life after death as we sure don't have a hell of a lot of proof on that theory.

Take the faith out of the pie in the sky and put the faith (and the money ) in what science is investigating in order to relieve the pain and suffering. Kind words may seem to diminish the suffering, but give me a dose of painkillers, antibiotics and a good medical team and you can keep all the churches and the questionable practices of the MEN that hold office there.

Prayers are for those who are not doing the suffering and need something to occupy their minds as they feel useless. But they are not on twitter to a Almighty Entity and they are no return texts.

My piece to add to this puzzle.

Please continue with the next episode AHM.
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In America, 70-80 percent of patients fail to take their meds.

Of what use is it to prescribe drugs which are not ingested?

That is the reality of clinical medicine vs silly simplistic pat answers.

If you fail to acheve a therapeutic dose in the bloodstream after taking into pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics, then how do you get overcome the first pass effect of the liver?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_pa...

I can't wait to hear the retort.

Being the father of 2 boys that are older than 17, you have a very high estimation of what the average 17 year knows of a health care system in Europe. Perhaps this is your Appeal to Ridicule?

I am quite aware of the effects that sickness has on the family grouping, be it in the children or the elder members. I have family members working in the Medical system and I have personal experience of the medical system in action.

You have done what many of your credence do when faced with the lack of a religious necessity - invent a crisis, a monster, a devil - or in your case you have invented the "nightmarish problem" of pain management along with an "antibiotic crisis" yet provide no hard evidence that such armageddon like catastrophes exist.

I have much more faith in scientists resolving the problems that you have in fact hypothesised and hyperbolised.

When the drugs, natural remedies, acupunture and all the other forms of medicine stop working, we will look for and find alternatives as we have always done and will always do. Necessity has always been the mother of invention so ...less please of the scaremongering.
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Medicine is data gathering and testing theories and expermenting and investigations and reviewing the results ... ad infinitum.

The human side of medicine is without question important and as we are all human, then we are open to that in all its forms.

Staff in a service industry are overworked - period. And I have no interest in the insurance companies as I worked in one and I can see that they are doing quite well out of the private health care system.

I think you may have come to the end of this thread as you have little to say that is not generally known by an average minded adult in western society. Good day to you AHM.

Until the next time ... moving on - bigger fish to fry.
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Incredulity in your fellow man may be an issue with you along with the "smartest guy in the room faux syndrome".

I don't know what Americans do with their medication, nor why they would do it, but I am sure there are numerous reports on how they discovered "70-80 percent of patients fail to take their meds." I follow House's Law that "All patients lie about everything". I doubt we have such wastage on this side of the pond, but I do not have data to support this assumption.

References to "First Passed Effects" will not get my juices flowing either as I am not a qualified doctor and I get the feeling you are unlikely to be one either.

Therefore opening a thread on the "medical causes of diseases" is a bit of a misnomer, unless you are actually going consult every disease and ailment (chronic or otherwise) to exist globally. Quite an undertaking.

Patients may or may not want to take their mediciation but that is their decision and the medication should be provided for all patients. And the supposition that a "miracle" new antibiotic which will resolve all these illnesses and diseases you are going to expound here, I am sure will bring those numbers down especially if there is someone there to remind them in the form of a family member, a nurse, a doctor or a caregiver.
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And if it got rid of wrinkles then that would be a BIG PHARMA bonus.

Well Bubba, I think we have exhausted this. Bye and do try to confront less and listen more. For your own sake and the other nice members on this open forum. Verboseness may not be the best approach. Something to think about as you tackle the next headline.
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I'm amused because you came out swinging and were insulting in your first post and now are giving me advice plus trying to discredit me? Meanwhile your retorts are useless.

I'm glad when people disagree and especially if they have a rationale. I don't know why you bothered to post?

I get it. You are an antitheist. Are you seriously thinking eliminating clergy is going to help patients??? Their families? Medical missions? Group therapy which is done free at churches?

An antitheist who dismissed spirituality. Gee what a shock.

I think no such thing and putting words into my mouth will not cover up the fact that your soap box is as small as your communication skills to normal people. Suffering is very close to my thoughts and I cannot abide it.

I do not take it lightly and I do consider that health care is much more important than invading countries and investing billions in defense systems in order to justify handouts to the manufacturers of such systems.



"Trillions wasted healthcare dollars" seems to be a problem for you to sort out via your voting system and your government. Get out there and start a movement instead of sitting here trying to show off and wasting your time. Start a revolution if you want things to get better otherwise you have the status quo. Period.

I am well aware what empathy is - you seem to be paying lipservice yet doing nothing. How many sick people did you cure with your bible pushing? You don't need to be a bible pusher to have empathy. A touch of humanity will do.
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Shall I let you in on a secret? - most of humanity is focused on their day-to-day living, whatever that may entail and not on spouting accusations about lack of empathy.

Not impressed? I wasn't even trying Buba. Next time I'll swallow some data. I feel I may have touched a nerve on your medical issues, I am sorry to say. Deflection is the best defense under those circumstances. And the advice was from the heart. I can feel your suffering.


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If you could provide some proof of neediness and budget slashing (off whom I wonder).

You have been labelling members here since you have arrived which makes me wonder what condition you may be suffering from. Now I am an anarchist while I am defending a government controlled health system, social welfare system and free education.

You really are all over the place which leads me to assume that you are part of the 70-80% who are not taking their medication in the US. If this is the case, your brain is not having a good time and you need to rest.

It is worrying. Please talk to someone - a professional. You have nothing to prove to anyone here. Your health is the most important thing.

Take care.

Now atheism has been recognized as a spiritual system by the US Supreme Court. There are atheist meeting houses.

Atheism can be very spiritual as humanism has been an aspect of atheism since the Greeks and Romans.

If this life is ALL there is, then caring for each other intensely matters. Seneca wrote about ethics and humanism and was an atheist. Thomas Paine was an athiest and humanist.

But denying billions their rights to have spiritual counselors is not enlightened at all nor humanism but a grotesque abomination.

ah! Yes ... Crutchbender did mention something about the LWS that runs through your threads. How naughty of you.

www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond...

"Symptoms
Antisocial personality disorder signs and symptoms may include:
Disregard for right and wrong
Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others
Being callous, cynical and disrespectful of others
Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or personal pleasure
Arrogance, a sense of superiority and being extremely opinionated
Recurring problems with the law, including criminal behavior
Repeatedly violating the rights of others through intimidation and dishonesty
Impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead
Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, aggression or violence
Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others
Unnecessary risk-taking or dangerous behavior with no regard for the safety of self or others
Poor or abusive relationships
Failure to consider the negative consequences of behavior or learn from them
... Being consistently irresponsible and repeatedly failing to fulfill work or financial obligation"
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I do wonder if this is directed towards me or a reflection of what can be seen in the mirror I was holding up.

Internet psychology is a bit like (and I quote) ".... evangelism on the Internet is abiblical and unlikely to persuade anyone."

I would suggest for your own sake to take some of the advice that has been offered to you and seek professional help.

Blessed Be.

I am still waiting for the plan to explain ... the Medical and Spiritual Causes of Disease.

So I shall keep it simple and maybe you can retort with a concise, understandable answer?

Can you please inform the readers as to what are (in your most humble opinion) the Medical and Spiritual causes of ...

1. Type 2 Diabetes
2. Acne
3. Adult ADHD
4. Asperger Syndrome
5. Bipolar Disorder


I await your concise, understandable response.

I have emphaticly endorsed the natural and civil rights for all women for sixty years as it is absolutely Biblical according to Galatians 3. Certainly that carried over into my academic and professional life within my occupation as well as within my adult spiritual life.

I find it bizarre that any who claim to be feminist or generally supportive of women would call another "an irritating twat". A twat is a fool and vagina. Look it up. As such, it is misogynistic implying that a women is an irritating fool.

To call a man a irritating twat implies that he is unmanly and irritating and a foolish woman. That is bizarre, and misogynistic as if a man is superior, but by relabeling then is inferior. That is not only misogynistic, it is ridiculous. It is additionally puerile.

I denounce anyone who is misogynistic as a horrendous bigot as that insults BILLIONS making up half of the entire Earth's population and is so malevolent that all men should denounce dolts who perpetuate stereotypes associating women with fools.

Thomas Paine was NOT a deist whatsoever but an atheist, a rather strong one. As many of the Founding Fathers in America were deists and Christians, and natural theory as proposed by John Locke stated that natural rights derived from God, Paine inisited that "Nature" be a name for the source of natural rights.

He won and so you will find Founding Fathers saying "God or Nature" is the source of natural rights".

...It would be more consistent that we call [the Bible] the work of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
Thomas Paine

I of course to do not agree with Thomas Paine whatsoever.

Natural rights theory certainly plays a role in medicine. In fact, in America all medical centers and hospitals and even clinics have a listing of the rights of patients and these derive from natural and civil rights theory.

For Thomas Paine, that "god" was Nature. This is the problem with the generic term "God" as that can literally mean anything.

Thomas Paine was such an irritating figure that he stirred up immense controversy that even ardent fellow atheists in control during the French Revolution threw him in jail.

He also was a brilliant writer and his "Common Sense" pamphlet is widely read to this day.

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church .

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

He in essence created an atheist church of ONE...himself and for Thomas Paine that "god" was Nature. He did not worship Nature but recognized Nature as being the architect of a mechanistic universe. And that Nature was the source of natural rights ie that all people have inherrent (derived at birth) and inalienabe (cannot be taken away) rights to private property, self-defense, freedom of speech, etc.
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This means in Thomas Paine's atheist "church" Nature is the author of growth for all living things, but simultaneously is a destroyer and causes children to get cancer and so cull humanity!

Yikes!
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Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, it renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as a means of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter.
Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

That is not the writing of a deist. A deist recognizes an Almighty ie Supreme Being. He is saying Christianity produces atheists as a byproduct. He does not say deists.

Thomas Paine was possibly the leading atheist writer of political theory in his day.

I am amused when dolts cherry pick from a clearly atheist writer who assigns Nature as his "god" and who self declared detaching himself from ALL CHURCHES and created his own church of one.

At the time of the American colonial period, had Thomas Paine "outed" himself as an atheist, he would not sold many pamphlets. He alligned himself with deists and is considered a Founding Father but a terrible rogue. Then fled to France and stirred up the rabble, and nearly was guillotined himself.

The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries, that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion. It has been the most dishonourable belief against the character of the divinity, the most destructive to morality, and the peace and happiness of man, that ever was propagated since man began to exist. It is better, far better, that we admitted, if it were possible, a thousand devils to roam at large, and to preach publicly the doctrine of devils, if there were any such, than that we permitted one such impostor and monster as Moses, Joshua, Samuel, and the Bible prophets, to come with the pretended word of God in his mouth, and have credit among us.

Whence arose all the horrid assassinations of whole nations of men, women, and infants, with which the Bible is filled; and the bloody persecutions, and tortures unto death and religious wars, that since that time have laid Europe in blood and ashes; whence arose they, but from this impious thing called revealed religion, and this monstrous belief that God has spoken to man? The lies of the Bible have been the cause of the one, and the lies of the Testament of the other.
... Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason

This is the writing of an atheist, not a deist whatsoever!

He openly is mocking God and supplants God with Nature in his atheistic church of one.
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Thomas Paine praises Nature. He was mocking God ie YHWH the Judeo-Christian God.

Thomas Paine created an atheist religion of one and an idol that was Nature. He did not worship Nature but recognized that superior force gave rise to the Universe.

That is why he is considered an atheist icon. Obviously some are too dense to understand his writings.

whence arose they, but from this impious thing called revealed religion, and this monstrous belief that God has spoken to man?
Thomas Paine

Read it. To Thomas Paine "God" does NOT communicate to humanity. Why? He states he is not a member of any recognized church...period. He despised all Of them.

Instead he just pulled a church out of his buttocks and his idol is Nature as a creative superior force that gave rise to the Universe and is the author of natural rights.

This Nature is also malevolent. It causes disease. It's a warped concept.

I am bellylaughing in pure guffaws.

Thomas Paine was a charlatan who invented an idol just to mock the idea of a JudeoChristian God named Yahweh. So whenever his peers were discussing God, Paine was insisting that a detached unknowable Nature that does not communicate but just creates and destroys is the true God.

It's silly really.

Now a pantheist believes in the concept that the Universe is what people label God. There are Native Americans who believe in the Spirit Who Walks In All Things. In that system then each of us a microcosm of the Universe.

As such then when any creature suffers then all suffer as all are ONE. For a pantheist then we are linked and we perceive we are individuals only because we have limited senses and/or are unenlightened due to insufficient contemplation.

The famous Thicht Nan Hahn (which I likely mispelled) who is Buddhist priest and written many books stated this. He said why do you harm your brother/sister or feel no sympathy for your brother/sister? This would be like the right hand harming the left hand. It would be like the right disrespecting the left hand.
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So this concept then affects any occupation involved in suffering like medicine and touches all people as all will suffer.

Either are beautiful ideas of interconnectedness. Then these form of spirituality have deep meaning regard compassion and altruism to do whatever we can to not only aleviate suffering, but prevent suffering from beginning.
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Now Thomas Jefferson was a deist. And then (and this is wildly amusing) just cut out pages from the Bible willy nilly that he disagreed with!

Look up a Jeffersonian Bible.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferso...

As a Deist, he believed that God does reveal himself in the Bible, but disagreed that Jesus was the Son of God. He believed that Jesus was just a great moral teacher.

Now that is a fairly common Deist idea held by many folks who may think they are Christians when actually they are Deists.

George Washington was this kind of Deist as well. That form believes in a generic Supreme Being that controls or at least initiated a mechanistic universe as an architect. That is what made me laugh earlier when I was accused of believing in that form of "God" as that form does give children cancer!

I am not at all a deist, an atheist, a patheist, or a Buddhist. I am a Christian.

[Certain proponents lf various spiritual systems get upset when you capitalize their belief system. ... As such, I will not capitalize their belief system while finding that weird. Generally one capitalizes a belief system to show inherent respect of their beliefs like Hindus. However some atheists do not want it capitalized.]
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Other deists strictly believe in a Superior Force that cannot be understood as a being in the way we consider creatures. It is so above us as to undefinable. As such, that form of deist often believes that this Superior Force just began the universe.

One could say that this form of deist believes this Superior Force started the Big Bang and may have done nothing else. Or it might have been an architect but has no interaction but is dispassionate with what is the result.

That would be like a scientist who creates living conditions in an aquarium and creatures are within but the scientist has no interaction whatsoever.

Hinduism has many gods. Islam is monotheistic and to them Jesus is a very important prophet. Ideally some adherent from either or both would comment regarding their beliefs and suffering and in medicine especially pastoral care.

Likewise anyone of any faith might have insight on the subject

I don't have time to read all this wall of text. But I have a ban hammer. Respect our TOS please.

Buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! The mosquito in a box is back for more parley with the good nightmare.

Let us now return to the theme of the thread as it seems to have been quite lost among the squabbles over our very own ThomasinaPaine (fame at last my Democratic friend).

Seeing that the title refers to the “Medical and Spiritual causes of diseases”, I challenged the OP to answer the following question, and perhaps shine some light on the very existence of this black hole in cyberspace.

Can you please inform the readers as to what are (in your most humble opinion) the Medical and Spiritual causes of ...

1. Type 2 Diabetes
2. Acne
3. Adult ADHD
4. Asperger Syndrome
5. Bipolar Disorder

His considered answer was ...



You can read what you wish into that.

Being on the side of medicine and science, I made a quick foray into an online medical dictionary as I have no studies in the field and I found quantities of information that I managed to whittle down into the following ...
...
1. type 2 diabetes
or
type 2 diabetes mellitus
n.
A disease marked by high glucose levels in the blood and impaired metabolism of carbohydrates, fats, and proteins, caused by the body's inability to respond effectively to insulin, combined with inadequate production of insulin by the pancreas. The disease, which can occur at any age but typically develops in middle-aged and older adults, often begins with no symptoms, is associated with obesity and inactivity, and may be managed, depending on severity, with dietary changes, an exercise regimen, and oral or injectable medications. Also called non-insulin-dependent diabetes, non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus.

The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary Copyright © 2007, 2004 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

2. Acne ...Causes and symptoms

The exact cause of acne is unknown.
Several risk factors have been identified:
• Age. Due to the hormonal changes they experience, teenagers are more likely to develop acne.
• Gender. Boys have more severe acne and develop it more often than girls.
• Disease. Hormonal disorders can complicate acne in girls.
• Heredity. Individuals with a family history of acne have greater susceptibility to the disease.
• Hormonal changes. Acne can flare up before menstruation, during pregnancy, and menopause.
• Diet. No foods cause acne, but certain foods may cause flare-ups.
• Drugs. Acne can be a side effect of drugs including tranquilizers, antidepressants, antibiotics, oral contraceptives, and anabolic steroids.
• Personal hygiene. Abrasive soaps, hard scrubbing, or picking at pimples will make them worse.
• Cosmetics. Oil-based makeup and hair sprays worsen acne.
• Environment. Exposure to oils and greases, polluted air, and sweating in hot weather aggravate acne.
• Stress. Emotional stress may contribute to acne.
Acne is usually not conspicuous, although inflamed lesions may cause pain, tenderness, itching, or swelling. The most troubling aspects of these lesions are the negative cosmetic effects and potential for scarring. Some people, especially teenagers, become emotionally upset about their condition, and have problems forming relationships or keeping jobs.
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3. Adult attention deficit hyperactivity disorder

Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), usually first diagnosed in childhood, can appear in a variety of forms and has many possible causes. People with ADHD probably have an underlying genetic vulnerability to developing it, but the severity of the problem is also influenced by the environment. Conflict and stress tend to make it worse.

About one-third[1](p44) to two-thirds[2] of children with symptoms from early childhood continue to demonstrate notable ADHD symptoms throughout life.
Three subtypes of ADHD are identified in the DSM-5 as:
• Predominantly Inattentive (ADHD-PI)
• Predominantly Hyperactive (ADHD-PH)
• Combined type (ADHD-C)
In later life, the hyperactive/impulsive subtype manifests less frequently.[1](p44) The hyperactivity symptoms tend to turn more into "inner restlessness", starting in adolescence and carrying on in adulthood.[3]
Adult ADHD is typically marked by inattentiveness, difficulty getting work done, procrastination and organizational problems. Specifically, adults with ADHD present with persistent difficulties in following directions, remembering information, concentrating, organizing tasks, completing work within specified time frames and appearing timely in appointments. These difficulties affect several different areas of an ADHD adult's life, causing emotional, social, vocational, marital, legal, financial and/or academic problems.[4][5][6] As a result, low self-esteem is commonly developed. However, given the right guidance and coaching, these traits of ADHD could also lead to career success.[7]
...
Diagnosis of the condition follows after one or several assessment interviews by a clinician including:
• examination of personal history
• observational evidence from

4. Asperger syndrome

Asperger syndrome (AS), also known as Asperger's, is a developmental disorder characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal communication, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests.[1] As a milder autism spectrum disorder (ASD), it differs from other ASDs by relatively normal language and intelligence.[4] Although not required for diagnosis, physical clumsiness and unusual use of language are common.[5][6] Signs usually begin before two years old and typically last for a person's entire life.[1]

The exact cause of Asperger's is unknown.[1] While it is probably partly inherited, the underlying genetics have not been determined conclusively.[5][7] Environmental factors are also believed to play a role.[1] Brain imaging has not identified a common underlying problem.[5] The diagnosis of Asperger's was removed in the 2013 fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), and people with these symptoms are now included within the autism spectrum disorder along with autism and pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified.[1][8] It remains within the tenth edition of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD-10) as of 2015.[4]
There is no single treatment, and the effectiveness of particular interventions is supported by only limited data.[5] Treatment is aimed at improving poor communication skills, obsessive or repetitive routines, and physical clumsiness.[2] Interventions may include social skills training, cognitive behavioral therapy, physical therapy, speech therapy, parent training, and medications for associated problems such as mood or anxiety.[2] Most children improve as they grow up, but social and communication difficulties usually persist.[9] Some researchers and people on the autism spectrum have advocated a shift in attitudes toward the view that autism spectrum disorder is a difference, rather than a disease that must be treated or cured.
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5. Bipolar disorder

Definition

Bipolar disorder, formerly known as manic depression, is a mood disorder that causes radical emotional changes and mood swings, from manic, restless highs to depressive, listless lows. Most bipolar individuals experience alternating episodes of mania and depression.
Description

Bipolar disorder is characterized by alternating manic episodes in which the individual feels abnormally euphoric, optimistic, and energetic and depressive periods in which the individual feels sad, hopeless, guilty, and sometimes suicidal. Manic or depressive periods may last for days, weeks, or months and run the spectrum from mild to severe. These episodes may be separated by periods of emotional stability in which the individual functions normally.
Bipolar I disorder is characterized by at least one manic episode without a major depressive episode. Manic episodes are the "high" of the manic-depressive cycle. A person experiencing a manic episode often has feelings of self-importance, elation, talkativeness, increased sociability, and a desire to embark on goal-oriented activities, coupled with the characteristics of irritability, impatience, impulsiveness, hyperactivity, and a decreased need for sleep. Usually this manic period is followed by a period of severe depression, although a few individuals may not experience a major depressive episode.
...
In the United States in 2005 about 5.7 million adults, or 2.6% of the adult population have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. About 1% of adolescents and between 0.2% and 0.4% of children have been diagnosed with the bipolar disorder, although controversy exists about diagnosing the disorder in these groups. The average age of onset of bipolar disorder is 25. However, because of the complexity of the disorder, a correct diagnosis can be delayed, and between 20% and 30% of adults with bipolar disorder report having undiagnosed symptoms in childhood or adolescence. According to the World Health Organization, bipolar disorder is the sixth leading cause of disability worldwide.

Causes

Although the source of bipolar disorder has not been clearly identified, a number of genetic and environmental factors appear to be involved in triggering episodes. Bipolar disorder has an inherited component; children who have at least one parent with bipolar disorder are more likely to develop the disorder. They are also more likely to be diagnosed with other psychiatric disorders such as attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). Several studies have uncovered possible genetic connections to the predisposition for bipolar disorder. A large study done in Sweden reported in 2009 that schizophrenia and bipolar disorder appeared to share similar genetic causes. Brain imaging studies suggest that there are physical changes in the brains of people with bipolar disorder. It is hypothesized that dopamine and other neurotransmitters involved in mood may be involved. The possible role of hormonal imbalances in bipolar disorder is another area of investigation. Investigators are also researching what, if any, environmental factors may trigger the disorder.
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Perhaps the OP can inform of the Spiritual Causes of Cancer, Parkinsons, Addison Disease or any of the hundreds available. Maybe he could use the information supplied above to help us understand the Title of his Thread.

Yours



BOX

I certainly never thought I'd find such a plethora of information on Thomas Paine in a thread titled "Medical and Spiritual causes of diseases".

Oh and BTW, touche' Monsieur Boite, touche' indeed.

There are thousands and thousands of diseases and medical condition. Some of these are controversial regarding mental illness.

If we were to discuss specific medical diseases and medical conditions AND discuss what the general medical and spiritual causes, the topic would be closed.

If anyone is interested, most frequently at uptodate, one can get free access to the latest peer-reviewed research. They are extremely stringent on what gets published as it's a resource for clinicians.

I am trying to write as briefly as possible.

In medical school, a student who has a foundation of physics, mathematics including calculus, biology, chemistry (including organic but PChem is suggested)...

...will the take gross anatomy, histology, embryology, physiology, biochemistry, behavioral science, biostatistics, neurology, pathology, nutrition (either seperate or a component of biochem), pharmacology, genetics, microbiology, immunology,basic diagnostics for clinical practice, shadow a physician and be assessed, etc.
...
That is in a nutshell JUST the first two years. Two further years are taken in clinicals in various specialties (pediatrics, cardiology, endocrinology, etc) plus surgery. Then residencies that are 2-6 years. Then you have further study to really specialize during fellowships.

Each of these has applications within any disease or mental condition.

Behavioral science to this day including what used to be labeled psychobiology and now neuroanatomy that affects behavior is controversial. 3,4, and 5 fit in this category.

In Robbins Pathology, which is a THICK tome, which is studied religiously by all med students, you will find evidence of disease states but also injuries and nutritional conditions, and mutagenic effects.

However in behavioral science, differential diagnosis is so common as to be bewildering to medical staff and patients. I was actually taught by one the top experts in behavior science and pathology as well as a specialist in antibiotics in a generalized class on microbiology and pharmacology.

Look for definitive clinical evidence for 3,4,5. There is NONE. You cannot take a test like a blood assay, urinalysis, do a biopsy, run an Xray, MRI, CAT, or PET and determine a specific clinical diagnosis.

Other physician openly mock psychologists as near pseudoscience. Why? Because they not only cannot positively prove a disease but will argue about the diagnosis. Then the "talking cure" of counseling does not have a proven efficacy. Drugs are irresponsibly dispensed with no proven efficacy. Mental illness cannot be cured as acne can.

Diabetes is a condition of an incompetant pancreas (the islet of Langerhans). You cannot swap it out! So that can't be cured but managed with insulin and diet and rest and the blood sugar carefully monitored.

I find simplistic imformation to be near useless as could a layperson with no medical training by their admission then create a concise synopsis???
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Having already done half the work, I again ask the OP inform of the Spiritual Causes of the diseases and conditions mentioned.

If you cannot provide such information then I would question the need for this thread or future threads created by this OP, as it is clear he has no substance to back up and inform on his Tabloid Headlines, creating confusion among the community and wasting valuable time that he may have, but which is in short supply for the general community here.

The term charlatan springs to mind when considering this member's status within the community. Let it be known that he has been found out, this charlatan nightmare and his childish word play.

Please refrain from participating in this charlatan's future threads as here you have witnessed his feeble efforts to arouse interest in an empty thread.

Yours




BOX

I particularly found the BiPolar description very interesing.

I can talk about the science of medicine say the divergence from a healthy state one would see in histology (microscopic slides indicating normal variants) versus pathology (microscopic slides that show abberant varients).

Gross anatomy is taken to comprehend normal healthy variants. Embryology studies normal healthy development with indication of what what go awry (the students don't have enough foundation to get anything more than a glimmer). Then in pathology the students are taught some abnormal varients which cause disease.

Each component builds a foundation, then is rigorous, and many students who though they were intelligent then falter as it becomes enormously complex.

Say you were discussing the possible viruses and bacteria that might cause a skin irritation that results in the formation of an infection that forms a pustule.

Well there are 5000 typed bacteria as I recall but scientists feel only 8% are harmful as we have so little knowledge. Then microbiologists believe there may be millions.
...
This means with pustule formation, one does not know it's acne. One presumes it is. Three forms are the most common bacteria but that does not mean they are only ones.

We don't know what caused a lack of a sufficient immune response to form a pustule. Pus forms from waves of white blood cells to control the microbe with various success. Yet that actually will begin to affect nearby tissue. So it is partially counterproductive.

There are people with terrible acne which cannot be cured...just managed.

How can you begin to discuss the complex spiritual components without first laying a medical foundation from science? I stated that early on. In fact as many are easily triggered by any mention is spirituality, I though it best to wait for the serious people if that comes near the end.

If we just talk with no orderly manner, then how will it make any sense?
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What films depict healthy responses of caregivers to prevent disease or treat disease? What films show humanism or spirituality as part of that process?

Explain.

Add internal links to these films in your answers.

What films demonstrate how patients are causing their own medical issues and or exacerbating their decline in health?

What films show medical errors leading to delays in treatment and even patients perishing?

Imagine that you are a sick patient with Pancreatic cancer and all you have as your support is Crotchety.

This is why people give up. He's like stepping into a bath of sulphuric acid.