Sail ships 1700-1800's (646 views, 14 replies)
senior guru
Women were considered very bad luck at sea. There were 2 things Captains were concerned with.
1: Superstition - Women were thought to anger the 'Sea Gods' causing rough sea's and impending doom for the vessel. There are several reports of women being thrown overboard during bad weather. One exception were bare-breasted women who were thought to 'shame/embarrass' Mother Nature into calming down. This is part of the reason you see topless female figureheads on the front of old ships.
2: A ship full of men and a few women? They presumed no work would be done because men would be distracted.
Women did dress as men to gain employment on ships, but it wasn't rife. There are a few documented cases of female pirates from 17th Century through to the late 19th.
I grew up near the National Maritime Museum in London and spent hours of my childhood exploring the old 19th Century tea clipper - Cutty Sark. My parents were avid sailors and owned big sail boats for years.
@DemandingFemale Not strictly true. Women were common on ships, Just not Navy ships, which is where the money was.
senior guru
Of course women were common at sea or Britain wouldn't have managed colonisation elsewhere. Some women would be employed as cooks or cleaners, others would be hired to keep the men happy on long difficult voyages. You're question was about women dressing as men for pay - that wasn't rife, but did happen.
Some wives and girlfriends would be taken along to do admin and learn navigational skills - which is another reason you see female figureheads on ships. Contrary to popular belief some women are great at navigating lol.
Fact remains, that women were still seen as bad luck by many and if discovered dressed as a boy were thrown overboard by some crews. Cargo, piracy and salvage were also big money makers for some and many denied females on board for the same reasons. Superstition and myth drove their belief, and as with anything, some took it more seriously than others.
senior guru
These are a couple of photos of the Cutty Sark. It was the last British clipper to be built for the tea and opium trade from China. Cutty Sark was built towards the end of the 1860s and it wasn't long before the Suze canal became the route of choice with the ever-growing popularity of steam ships.
Cutty Sark then did over 10 years in the British-Australian wool trade, was retired, sold to Portugal, used as a training vessel, sold again, and eventually ended up being dry-docked in Greenwich, London in the mid 1950's.
In 2007 it suffered extreme damage after a fire broke out. They have since rebuilt, using as much of what was left of the original. The modern picture was taken in 2004 (before the fire) The other picture was taken circa-1885.
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guru
What did you learn? How much of it stands to reality? Late 1800's steel and steam took over. But 1700's and before, when hemp and sail drove the ships. How much fact to fiction?
Is it true that there were many women using men names sailing? To get a fair wage?
@Egor17 Not a time i would have enjoyed. Too tall. Regular THUMP!
Maybe watch this if your in a sail boat phase.
Good drama
dosmovies.com/watch_tv_show/The_Terror....
@Mark83x "Too tall" Have you seen the height of a teen these days?
When I was a youngster any one over 6 foot was "head in the clouds" Now it seems they are pushing 7' OR maybe gravity is biting and I'm shrinking?
Sail boats are never out of phase.
@Egor17 Im 6'4'' , standard doorways in homes is around 6'2 .
I ALWAYS FORGET TO DUCK
In the past taller people died younger because we got dragged to war. Less opportunity to breed and pass it on. Considerably less a required trait to be able to swing a claymore with ease. lol
@Mark83x Ever looked at actual used suits of armour? These guys were short arses with legs that only just reached the ground.
Swinging a big sword such as a claymore was nothing to do with ease. And they are not as long as you think. I've seen hundreds still showing the use they were put to. You may have seen the museum blades. The smiths claim to fame. "Look I can make a blade this big"
People over 6' when claymores were in use were quite rare in Scotland. A claymore was a heavy duty sword about 5 foot and honed to slice bone.
I've heard stories that a 'Claymore' could be up to 18 foot long and swung properly could bring down a charging troop of horses. Really?
Hope your house allows your head in clouds to pass without a bump. I was 5'6" But am shrinking. At least I don't worry about door frames.
@Egor17 I owned a claymore many years ago . Tip to base it was just under 6 feet . Would play around with it outside . From various movies and videos , i figured out its not about a single big slice , but being able to keep its momentum and keep it swinging through obstacles like necks and limbs lol
I might have lost my grip on it and killed a shed
@Mark83x You must be in Europe, just checked and saw you are in UK. Doorways in the states are a lot higher. I always wonder how tall people do it over there with so many short doors.
@Egor17 I learned about my favourite explorers, AvH, W. Dampier etc. but I learned it through reading books, not at school. I would love to have a junk ship though.
IDK about the women using mens names to get a fair wage. If I was alive back then, I certainly would have done so just to get a chance to explore.
@nonamemanon Theres evidence of women doing it in a number of professions. In Shakespeares time, men played the rolls of women.
Women have equal rights in the west(by law,old ways still creep in unfortunately )
Because women finally banded together and demanded it.
It takes time for cultures to change, and awaken to equality
@Mark83x Thanks Mark83x.
I am aware that men played womens roles during the Elizabethan era, but had not realized that women had used men's names to get a fair wage.
I agree that it takes time for cultures to change. It is regrettable that equality or egalitarian societies were not the universal norm throughout history and instead has been driven mostly by patriarchal ideologies although I realize there have been times when matriarchal societies have also flourished, of course to somewhat of a lesser degree. It is unfortunate that the Enlightenment took so long to develop and it is also unfortunate that our "civil" society has not evolved in the manner that would accept egalitarianism and humanism. Many reason factor into this but I believe it is primarily driven by greed, which is unnecessary and seems very simplistic and illogical to me.