Am I racist if I don't like seeing white characters that I grew up with, black in film? (895 views, 107 replies)
master
Yes. It doesn't really matter who plays a character or what color their skin is. Who gives a sh*t?
@⍟LiviaD34D⍟ Well I would find it strange if a black actor played David Duke or Charles Manson
@Javi Yes, but we probably aren't talking about roles featuring characterizations of real people. We're probably talking about people being upset over things like the new actress playing The Little Mermaid, or other fictional characters. And in those cases it really shouldn't matter at all.
@⍟LiviaD34D⍟ Wait, isn't Tom Hanks in a recent movie playing a dark skinned man from history? lol. I didn't think that'd go over very well.
@StarKissed Not sure about that one. However, I didn't think Robert Downey Jr with black-face would have gone over well. And no one gave a sh*t. Maybe because his character was meant to make fun of that. Dunno. *shrug.*
@⍟LiviaD34D⍟ Robert Downey was parodying "whiteface" acting, he was showing us how absurd it is.
@⍟LiviaD34D⍟ The whole point of Robert's character in that movie was to make fun of actors who actually change their bodies for a role. One example is Robert DeNiro in Raging Bull. He gained 60 pounds to play the old Jake LaMatta. There is makeup, and fatsuits, he did not need to do that to make the character believable.
@Wander Yah, you're like the second person to point that out now. Not to mention, I said it myself in my comment. lol
@⍟LiviaD34D⍟ Not trying to give you a hard time Olivia, I saw what you wrote. I just wanted to post a good example of what they were making fun of with that character.
@Wander I actually admire character actors that research and achieve some personal form of transformation to give their best to a role. He's hardly the only one; Christian Bale in "The Mechanic"; Charlize Theron in "Monster", Billy Bob Thornton in "Sling Blade"; as a matter of fact, most really talented character actors change something drastic about themselves to relate to their character on a deeper level. Not to mention all the Marvel super heroes like Thor, Captain America, etc. They all go through actual contractual obligations to be on very strict work out regimes. It's one reason so many of them drop out eventually. It's very gruelling and leaves no time for personal choice.
PS Robert Downey Jr making fun of others actors? Now that's true irony for you. He's the biggest fake of all. He once said he could fill a swimming pool with his ONE pay-check from Iron Man, and then actually did it. ...
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@8====D That's it, thank you Simon.
I don't understand this, there's plenty of black actors who would be excellent in this part. I understand there are times when an actor wants to show diversity in their skill, but I think this is one time it's not necessary, is definitely not needed, and I don't know who would be appreciative of it other than the actor himself. It's just my opinion but I think it has the potential to do more harm than good.
top expert
Don't let other people dictate what you're allowed to think.
And no, casting with diversity quotas is the actual racism. There's no such thing as positive discrimination.
@Lemming Do you understand what diversity quotas are? Its a mandatory means to equal opportunities. Which means that according to you, equal opportunity is racism. 
@JudgeDredd ...did I actually read that correctly in the reply your responding to... "there's no such thing as positive discrimination" (aka affirmative action, aka equal opportunity)??
With that failed logic the Earth IS flat and we ARE all living inside of a simulation. Jeesh, 5 people actually agreed with it. Dear god the human race is doomed.
FFS. 
@DontSpeak But... But... What if it really is a hologram? What if the earth really is flat?
J/k
It's obviously round. Well, round-ish. And flat-earther's are idiots. lol
@⍟LiviaD34D⍟ It's easier to deal with the reality of the sh*t we've done and are doing to this planet if you think it's a hologram.
Fukushima dumping toxic wastewater into the ovean and killing millions of fish ... there's no going back now. Kill the ocean and were all dead. Racism is corruptive cancer; this is the killing blow and nothing else matters.
@DontSpeak Perhaps the fantasies give them hope that it isn't all crumbling into sh*t. And will continue to do so until it all falls apart and there just is no possibility of denying it any longer.
@JudgeDredd Sorry, but the moment something becomes 'mandatory', it is no longer 'equal'.
@Johnnyredd420 I couldnt disagree more. Respectfully of course. The whole concept of law provides for equality of treatment in regards to race, religion, ethnic origin, national origin, sex, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity. And legal obligations are not exactly optional, yet they ensure equality by eliminating discrimination.
@JudgeDredd Yes, the 'concept of law' is based on fairness and equality, but the act of forcing anyone to conform to an ideology that they do not agree with, is not. Also, per your example, you listed protected classes that are seldomly held equal to others. Certain races, religions, genders, etc., are shown to be more (for a lack of better term) 'equal' than others. True equality would be the exact opposite of lawfully mandated inclusion.
@Johnnyredd420 The act of forcing anyone to conform to an ideology that they do not agree with is called society. Participation in a society is not mandatory. Its a choice. The choice between living a solitary life and a life in a community. From the moment you choose the many over the one, you have to abide by the common beliefs and norms established by that respective society, irrespective if you agree with them or not.
I find it very interesting that you recognize the protected status of these classes. That tells me tons about you, chiefly amongst which that you are an intelligent and an educated person. This also invalidates your argument as the protection afforded to these classes is entirely on account of the perceived inequality derived by ideological and outdated beliefs. It is exactly on account of the beliefs that some classes are perceived to be more equal than others that warranted the legislation on equality and non discrimination.
@JudgeDredd Why is it so hard for people to understand that if they are the type to actively discriminate against others, they are the problem? And that the issue isn't with the fact that something is mandatory and forces them to legally comply, but rather that they actually have to have such laws in place in order to stay in line. Which, again, makes them the problem?
Equality and nondiscriminatory practices are included in these laws to protect what obviously needs protection to the sane among us. The dregs of society need to wake up to the truth that no one gives a sh*t that they are displeased with such rules. Why can't they just get in line and stfu?
Then again, if they didn't speak up, it might not be so obvious who the scum among us were. lol
@CitizenD lol
I don't do marriage. Just not social enough to spend that much time with another person. 
@⍟LiviaD34D⍟ That does not bother me. I have no friends, I am quite antisocial, my neighbors hate me and I live like a hermit. 
@CitizenD I'm like a ninja when it comes to neighbors. I see them, but they never see me. Avoidance of conversation at all cost. lol
At some point in the past, all the friends I had irl converted to online only friends. And all the ones I made after that point were online.
Easier that way. :)
@⍟LiviaD34D⍟ Wonderful! 
That's exactly how it's supposed to be - imho:)
I put on my grumpiest face in the hallway so that the neighbors avoid me.
And I prefer to walk the dog at night when no one is out there. It's so peaceful. 
In front of the supermarket I always park on the dividing strip between two parking spaces to show my disgust.
Among other things.. I consider this to be self-defense.
[SPOILER]
@CitizenD I put on the grouchy face, and make the evil eyes. But I'd step in front of traffic to help someone, or get between a total stranger and a bullet. That doesn't mean I wanna talk to them, though. lol
hey i take that personal!
skilled
Like the time Scarlett Johansen played a Japanese woman? Or when John Wayne played a Mongolian or the just about every time someone makes a movie about Wuthering Heights and the actor who plays Heathcliff is just about always some moody white guy and South Asian or Black as he is describe in the book?
@Javi Its called artistic license and its the individual vision of the Director vis a vis his work, compared to other iterations of the same project.
@Javi Are you sure about that?
whitewash
verb
2.d eliberately attempt to conceal unpleasant or incriminating facts about (someone or something).
Artistic License
"Artistic license (alongside more contextually-specific derivative terms such as poetic license, historical license, dramatic license, and narrative license) refers to deviation from fact or form for artistic purposes. It can include the alteration of grammar or language, or the rewording of pre-existing text."
"Artistic license often provokes controversy by offending those who resent the reinterpretation of cherished beliefs or previous works. Artists often respond to these criticisms by pointing out that their work was not intended to be a verbatim portrayal of something previous and should be judged only on artistic merit. Artistic license is a generally accepted practice, particularly when the result is widely acclaimed. William Shakespeare's historical plays, for example, are gross distortions of historical fact but are nevertheless lauded as outstanding literary works."
...
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@JudgeDredd Pretty sure about that
"Whitewashing is a casting practice in the film industry in which white actors are cast in non-white roles. As defined by Merriam-Webster, to whitewash is "to alter...in a way that favors, features, or caters to white people: such as...casting a white performer in a role based on a nonwhite person or fictional character." According to the BBC, films in which white actors have played other races include all genres. African-American roles and roles of Asian descent have been whitewashed, as well as characters from the ancient world in the genre of classical and mythological films"
I have the full set of Wikipedia too
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewashi...
@Javi Although I am not a fan of the user-generated information on Wikipedia, that's mostly accurate. The issue with Wikipedia is that it often changes, omits or allows artistic recreations of fact without any form of correction or notation.
However, this practise [white-washing] was very popular in past times when equal rights laws were not in place and racism was openly accepted as the norm. FEAR of casting anyone non-Caucasian ruled the screen.
Artistic license is something that is important to protect, but we must never, ever return to the times where actors literally hid their ethnic group to land roles. Before the laws we have now, no one would cast Indigenous or Asian people out of fear [racism].
If you haven't seen "The Human Stain" (2003) with Anthony Hopkins and Nicole Kidman, give it a watch. [SPOILER] ...
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@DontSpeak I get it when they cast a white person who is at least a mixed raced person like Kazan's Pinky. But I don't like it when they cast a white person as an obvious Asian or Asiatic person like Jesus. Why do we have so many white blue eyed Aryan Jesus in the movies? Jesus wasn't white, he was an Asiatic Semite from Palestine. If people are going to complain about white characters being portrayed by people of color then they better look at how Jesus has been portrayed and suck it up.
expert
@Tangerine🍊🍊🍊 I grew up in the the 80s.and it was unheard of dating someone out of your race.
@tyetoes Race, itself, is a nazi concept. There is only one race when it comes to people. Human. As in The Human Race. Whoever gave you trouble in the 80s should be jailed.
@⍟LiviaD34D⍟ thanx,but that was life where i am.But the black girls didnt like it ,either.They threw tampons at me in the bus!
@tyetoes I hear you. It was walking with my black boyfriend when I was hugely pregnant - and spat at by a black girl - that I understood fully that it's not just white people that are racist. That was 1986. Thankfully although I know racism still exists, I am also certain that things have changed for the better.
@⍟LiviaD34D⍟ Great minds think alike... I just said the same thing. To be honest, anytime ANYONE talks about "race" with humans I become very circumspect on their motives. ONE RACE homosapien, different ethnic groups. Race was introduced as a means to denote superiority or inferiority, just like a measured foot race. Obliterate that word when speaking of humans. That's my motto.
God
No. Being against race swapping of existing characters especially white doesn't make a person racist.
@JudgeDredd Check out this racist little monster, she makes no secret of her disapproval for a non white face in a remake film.
youtube.com/shorts/rPtcuPuHWCU?s...
@8====D LOL!!!!! That is priceless. 
Not the same though as her reaction is not based on racism. She is more worried that her parents duped her into a copycat/counterfeit movie and not the original. My sister had the same reaction when she got a Cindy doll rather than the Barbie doll that she wanted.
expert
senior master
Yes, it is. It's called "casual racism", which is the most commonly accepted form of [any] bias and discrimination. It's also the most dangerous because it [attempts to] normalise it.
It's exactly the same as people who say, "I don't care what gays do as long as they keep it at home and I don't have to see it." Again, that's casual homophobia.
It's good that you are aware of it, that means it can change if you spend time thinking things through.
Maybe the descriptions from the comic books and graphic novels on how a character looks is actually quite secondary, if even that, to the character? Isn't it more about what they can do and how they act?
@DontSpeak Wait wait wait lol... my lifetime friend (bestie, and I'm turning 50 soon) who is my beneficiary who has access to just about everything for me is gay. I trust he explicitly but I don't care to know what she does in her bedroom nor does she care about what I do (which isn't much unless you include "self-handling).
Does this mean I'm casually homophobic?
@CollideDuhScope Or does this mean she's causally hetro-phobic?
That's not even a word 
expert
senior master
well it seems changing white to black is ok,
changing dwarfs to, no clue what they be,
changing lost boys to girls
but im pretty sure it would be WILD if they changed a black to white
why not do new stories and put your choice of actors??
if you change characters, i expect the new movie to be extra ordinary,
not a bleak copy
my biggest annoyence with disney was the change of the ending of The Little Mermaid,
seeing i grew up with the story
@☂️Suisen🌂 "but im pretty sure it would be WILD if they changed a black to white"
You mean like that?
@JudgeDredd The golden age of Hollywood is FULL of leading ladies who hid their black ancestry, and everyone knew, making themselves appear white for white roles. That's a tragedy.
senior master
Michael B. Jordan played Johnny Storm; Idris Elba as Heimdall; Laurence Fishburne as Perry White, etc. Those characters are all white characters. What does it matter? It doesn't.
@Javi Fun fact: MCU Nick Fury is based on the 'Ultimate' version of Nick Fury, who is based on Samuel L. Jackson. No race swap, as the 'black' Nick is actually [spoiler][the son of 'white' Nick Fury 
]
@Johnnyredd420 No, Ultimate Nick Fury is based on Samuel L. Jackson, Bendis said so. The Nick Fury played by Samuel L. Jackson isn't the son of white Nick Fury but is supposed to be a depiction of the mainstream Marvel universe Nick Fury not the Ultimate Nick Fury or the new Nick Fury.
@JudgeDredd In Marvel the multiverse is infinite, so possibly there are an infinite number of Nick Furys. But there are 3 main depictions that I mentioned plus some of the "What If" stories about Nick Fury. It gets confusing.
@JudgeDredd There is only one REAL Nick Fury and he goes by the name "The Hoff" ;)
dosmovies.com/film/Nick_Fury_Age...
@JudgeDredd You like Wikipedia, right? Go to the page and read for yourself. P.S. Nicholas J. Fury, technically not a junior, more of a 2nd.
@Johnnyredd420 I like every substantiated source that helps me win an argument. This however is not an argument. Its a bona fide question on the humorous side. If you dont wish to avail yourself to a humorous conversation, you dont need to reply.
P.S. I found this excerpt from a source other than Wikipedia:
"Usually, the suffix Jr. is used for a baby boy who has the same name as his father, while II is used when a baby boy is named for a male relative other than the father. When three men generationally have the same name, like a grandfather, father and son, II can be used, but Jr. is usually preferred."
www.thebump.com/a/how-to-pass-do...
senior master
When I was kid I had readings all over about the bad Nazis, the holocaust, the white KKKs burning black ppl in the Americas etc.
When I was 40 and got really well manipulated by an allied black president I watched a black Achilles in a movie, I thought it's ridiculous but then, after some years I seen something called "Afrocentrism" with the latest product a "black Cleopatra" and hundreds of ridiculous "historical" posts, videos and publications which are worse than ridiculous not only for a Greek like me but for the whole scientific community. At some point have readings from many other countries -centrisms, also ridiculous for the history of their own country.
When I was 48 I seen black ppl waving flags of BLM, because if in the Americas the problem isn't solved it means it exists everywhere and others teaching me how to become homosexual and that is cool for my nieces to paint their body like Maoris.
Now at my 50's I get a little anxious, let's say like for 10-12 mins when they call me a racist for what I believe but as soon as I become 60 I won't care at all, not even for a sec I suppose.
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guru
There is one upcoming movie where a character is going to be played by a black actor that frankly ticks me off. In the upcoming version of Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid, one of them, I think Sundance, is played by a black actor. These were real people, there are pictures of them, and neither one was black. What is gained by literally changing history? Shang-Chi was fantastic. A movie about Asian characters played by Asian actors as it should be instead of old movies like the Charlie Chan movies played by a white man, and Native characters in Westerns played by white guys. I do realize it is called "acting" so one does not have to be straight to play straight or gay to play gay, but the old days when almost every actor of any race was a white person in makeup should have been over a long time ago.
@Wander When the portrayl is of an actual person changing the ethnic group is changing the historical and factual accuracy. It shouldn't be done, unless they call it an alternative and fictionalised story, and not a biography or documentary. Artistic license shouldn't be quashed, but it must reflect the facts.
When you're talking about the real racism side of Hollywood that was literally afraid to use any person of Asian, Indigenous, Black, Spanish, Latino, etc (anyone non-caucasian) descent, then the whole arguement reverts back to racism and nothing else.
The fear that permeats that industry is still very much there and more profoundly than ever. Laws have changed things a certain amount, but closed minds still [heavily] exist. As you can witness in various forms in this thread.
senior guru
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master
Winner of the 2Moobz 🏆 Algorithm Award [is none] goes to this pg:
dosmovies.com/film/Hidden_Colors...
Yeah, probably not? 
@(⌐■_■) The movie itself is a clear idea of the way women were treated no matter any color.
I don't have that acute awareness of the prejudice.
But I have been a party.
I was raised with a moral compass,I raised my children with the same.
I just went through this recently with a dear friend who happens to be dark or black (a veteran)
Like me he doesn't see color persay but he will call out "ghetto" behavior.
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guru
I don't want to be called racist because I'm not. I'm just so use to seeing cartoons,comics with white people donning the role. I even accepted, Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin in the 2003 Daredevil movie. He was perfect for the role. But now we have this new TMNT movie and April O'Niel is black/brown. The live action "Little Mermaid". Well I just think why dismantle a already established franchised to meet black lives matter or what ever the industries are doing. Create new that I and billions of others can connect with. I'm not racist if you think I am. I just like my characters how they were originally created. Okay, I stepped off the soap box. Peace love & happiness to all.